LINDSAY, Christian ³

   Other names for Christian were DOUGLAS, Christian ⁴ and LINDSAY, Elizabeth.^{1 4}

   User ID: M915.

  Research Notes:

"SP Correction: Sir William Douglas and his Lindsay wife

John P. Ravilious

May 21, 2006, 4:40:21 AM to Saturday, 20 May, 2006

Dear Alex, Tim, Will, et al.,

I spoke with Andrew MacEwen yesterday concerning my conjectures concerning the identification of the wife of Sir William Douglas of Lochleven (d. 1421)[1]. He agreed that the relationships set forth in the dispensation did not match with the presentation in Scots Peerage (i.e., that Sir William Douglas was married to a daughter of David Lindsay, 1st Earl of Crawford); and that while he was not aware of any documentation or source that would further relate to the matter, he had 'no problem' with the conjectures, and that he 'didn't see anything wrong with your theory.'

Based upon the above, it does appear that the identification in Scots Peerage was based on a flawed understanding of the dispensation itself, and/or of the actual descents of Sir William Douglas and his wife (to be) from Walter the Stewart (d. 1326). I think it then reasonable to state the following:

1. Sir William Douglas of Lochleven (d. 1421) had dispensation to marry Elizabeth Lindsay, daughter of Alexander Lindsay, 2nd Earl of Crawford, as appears from 'a dispensation by Henry, Bishop of St. Andrews, for the marriage of William Douglas of St. Andrews diocese, and Elizabeth Lindsay of Brechin diocese, they being in the third and fourth degrees of consanguinity. ' [2]

2. It appears that the marriage to Elizabeth Lindsay did not occur (likely due to either her death or to marriage to another individual) and that Sir William Douglas was married to Christian, most likely a sister of Elizabeth and another daughter of Alexander Lindsay.

3. The relationships identified between the Lindsay family and certain descendants of Christian (including her daughter Elizabeth Douglas, <neptis> of Earl Alexander Lindsay (d. 1439), and her son Sir John Auchinleck of that Ilk, 'lovit cousin and squire' of David Lindsay, (5th) Earl of Crawford in a confirmation of a grant in 1466) serve to confirm this conjecture.

This will further serve to correct existing confusion, whereby Elizabeth Lindsay, daughter of David Lindsay (1st Earl of Crawford) and his wife Elizabeth Stewart, is shown on occasion to be married to Sir William Douglas instead or, or in addition to, her known husband Sir Robert Erskine [3].

Some statements (documentation not noted) indicate that Elizabeth Lindsay, a daughter of Alexander Lindsay (the 2nd Earl) was married to one Simon Glendonwyn: perhaps further evidence will be found concerning this alleged marriage, which would serve to account for Sir William Douglas of Lochleven marrying another Lindsay daughter.

Cheers,

John"

Note:

See the internet site cited for the explication of the internal notes of this excerpt and the replies linked to it. ³

Christian married Sir William DOUGLAS of Lugton and Lochleven, son of Sir Henry DOUGLAS of Lugton and Lochleven and Marjory STEWART.¹ (Sir William DOUGLAS of Lugton and Lochleven was born about 1384 and died on 22 March 1421 in Battle of Baugé, near Angers, Anjou, France ¹.)

  Marriage Notes:

"Earl David (Lindsay) is said to have had daughters : Marjory, married to Sir William Douglas of Lochleven. Elizabeth, said to have been married to Sir Robert Keith, Marischal of Scotland, but probably to Robert (Erskine), Earl of Mar." (see Note below)

from Scots Peerage (vol 3)




"Sir William Douglas of Lochleven succeeded his father, to whom he was served heir 20 December 1409, and acquired the lands of Ralstoun on the resignation of these in his favour by Sir Walter Stewart, son of Sir John Stewart of Ralstoun, and brother of Sir William's mother, Margery Stewart, in 1416. These lands he settled on his younger son James. It was probably he, and not, as Sir William Fraser suggests, a hitherto unknown son of the same name who accompanied the Earls of Buchan and Wigtown to France, where he in all likelihood was killed in the battles of Beauge or Fresnay le Comte in 1421. He apparently married Elizabeth Lindsay, as appears from, with other evidence, a dispensation by Henry, Bishop of St. Andrews, for the marriage of William Douglas of St. Andrews diocese, and Elizabeth Lindsay of Brechin diocese, they being in the third and fourth degrees of consanguinity. He had issue"

from Scots Peerage (vol 6)




The young Laird (David Wemyss) of Wemyss, however, died at an early age, before September 1430. He married, between 1 and 4 February 1423-24, a lady named Christian Douglas, who is described as the widow of the late Sir William Douglas. Sir William Fraser suggests her first husband was a son of the Laird of Lochleven, but he had a dispensation to marry an Elizabeth Lindsay.

from Scots Peerage (vol 8)

Note:

There is, clearly some disagreement in the volumes of Scots Peerage about the given names of the Lindsay daughters and who were their respective spouses. This may have been confused by the fact that Marjory/Margery was the name of the mother of Sir William Douglas, and Elizabeth the name of spouse's mother. But there is also further research continuing. See the Research Notes for Christian Lindsay (ID: M915). ^{1 4 5}

Christian next married David WEMYSS of Methil and Wemyss, son of Sir John WEMYSS of Leuchars, Kincaldrum and Rires, then of Wemyss and Isabel ERSKINE, February 1423(1424).² (David WEMYSS of Methil and Wemyss was born about 1393 and died before September 1430 ^{2 4}.)

  Marriage Notes:

"David Wemyss of Methil and Wemyss, who succeeded his mother, Isabel Erskine, in her Wemyss and other lands. He obtained a charter of Tillybreak etc., from Murdach, Duke of Albany and Earl of Fife, in October 1423, and by the following February had married Dame Christian Douglas, relict of Sir William Douglas. He only survived his father about two years, dying before September 1430. He was survived by his wife, who married, thirdly, before 20th July 1446, James Auchinleck of that Ilk."

from Family of Wemyss ²

Christian next married Sir James AUCHINLECK of that Ilk.² (Sir James AUCHINLECK of that Ilk was born about 1395 and died after 20 April 1444 ⁶.)

  Marriage Notes:

"David Wemyss .... only survived his father about two years, dying before September 1430. He was survived by his wife, who married, thirdly, before 20th July 1446, James Auchinleck of that Ilk." (page 709)

"Christian Douglas survived her husband David Wemyss and married again, before 1443, Sir James Auchinleck of Auchinleck. He took part in the arrangements for the marriage of Euphamia Wemyss, his wife's daughter, in that year. He also, from the terms of an obligation granted by him in 1444 to Andrew Ogilvy of Inchmartin, appears to have acted in some degree as a guardian to John Wemyss, son of David, and his sisters. Two years later he and his wife Christian Douglas resigned in favour of her son, John Wemyss of that ilk, the liferent of all her terce lands, to which she had right through the death of her husband David Wemyss, except the third of Inchmartin, which Sir James exchanged with Sir Andrew Ogilvy for the lands of Glen during life. In return she received in liferent the lands of Strathardle, Balhall, Wardropstown, with the fishings, Auchinleven, Harlaw, and Ardowan, Kinnaird, Pitcovy, with her third of Auchinlasse." (page 73)

"In 1441, another inquest was held, which declared that John Wemyss was now beyond the age of tutory, and he and his two sisters then seem to have passed under other guardians, among whom was his mother's husband, Sir James Auchinleck of Auchinleck. The latter appears on behalf of the children of the late David Wemyss in more than one transaction. Thus, in 1443, he required that the son and heir of Sir Andrew Ogilvy of Inchmartin should, under a penalty of 500 marks, within forty days, fulfil a contract of marriage made with Euphemia Wemyss, sister of John, or provide her with a husband able to spend 200 merks yearly. Sir Andrew Ogilvy replied that he could not fulfil the engagement to his son, but he would willingly perform the rest of the bargain. Again, in 1444, Sir James binds himself to eflect an agreement between John Wemyss and Sir Andrew Ogilvy of Inchmartin as to exchange of their respective parts of the Wemyss and Inchmartin .... Sir James further binds himself that John Wemyss shall not disinherit his sisters, and promises to procure for Sir Andrew a letter of sanction from the Earl of Douglas or other noblemen for entailing the lands of Sir Walter Ogilvy, sheriff of Angus, those of Sir Andrew himself, and of his nephew, David Ogilvy. The agreement concludes with a reference to certain sums to be recovered for the marriage of John Wemyss, and given to Sir Andrew Ogilvy for the marriage of his son and liis nephew to the sisters of Wemyss." (pages 75 and 76)

from Family of Wemyss ²